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interview // german // 4:08 Min // 18.06.2008
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Well, of course, at first, we debated with the young people. But more and more we were forced to debate with the adults, as well. It was not, as if only the youth was discussing fascism. We knew exactly how to distinguish between the Italian fascism, the black fascism in Austria and the brown fascism in Germany. There was a difference – you had to know and consider that. But we were also forced into conflict by that, because there were (this is a historical term) ‘saloon battles’ going on right from the beginning. The Nazis for example tried to attack the events of the anti-fascists or to make them impossible and the anti-fascists tried to make the Nazis’ events impossible, as well. Of course there were rows and because I was quite strong, I went to anti-fascist’s events when I was fifteen, against my parent’s will. When the Nazis had stormed or tried to storm, you had to defend yourself, of course. We did that and there always were oral disputes before the rows took place. But as it went to that time there were different tendencies between us. My father belonged to the tendency, who said that the Nazis could not be beaten by their own weapons. We were not supposed to take over the violence of the Nazis, but focus on enlightenment. Others, our metal workers in the companies said: “But that is what we witness daily, they only understand the language of violence. Our arguments bounce off like the raindrops on a raincoat. We can only succeed the Nazis with violence.” And in the socialistic youth we did both. We acquired the theoretical qualifications to be able to debate with the Nazis and at the same time we defended ourselves. We had no choice. Until 1936 we sang: “We never want to carry weapons again! Never, ever do we want war again. Let the ones at the top fight each other on their own, we just won’t take part any more.” Then the old comrades came and said that Hitler was standing in front of the door with armed arguments, and you do not intend to defend yourself. There was a giant discussion in the youth association and then we decided to do military training. We learned to shoot and we learned a new martial art. The Nazis did not even know the name of it. Nowadays it is an old hat, at that time the latest achievement: Jiu-Jitsu, training blows with the edge of your hand. With that we were able to prevail against the majority of the Nazis. If, for example one of our youth centres was closed in by Nazi rowdies and their supporters, how were we supposed to liberate the group in the youth centre? With defensive methods? That would not do. We had to attack and once their blows were overcome then the others would lose ground and we were able to get our people out of the youth centre. That happened from time to time, the adult’s organisation of the social democrats, the socialists, “Rote Wehr”, later on “Republikanische Wehr” (republican force), was strictly adjusted to defensive. That was good when a public house was to be defended against the attack of the Nazis. That was good at demonstrations, where the ‘Rote Wehr’ was walking at the front and at the back, but if, the way it happened a few times, a location in a small village was encircled by the Nazis, some of our people were already inside and some still wanted to get in to the event and couldn’t, well, then the pioneer fraction was called. Then we made sure that the ring around the house was burst through with our fighting tactics; with our new fighting methods that was possible.
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